Before delving into how a post on Pure Land Buddhism relates to Christian apologetics, let me provide a brief introduction to the history and development of thought in this ancient Buddhist philosophy.
INTRODUCTION
Pure Land Buddhism is a Mahayana School of Buddhism; it focuses on the attainment of nirvana through the merits of Amitabha Buddha, who is the focus of this sect. Pure Land Buddhism started in India during the Kushan era and then spread to China from Gandhara. The missionaries from Gandhara translated the texts into Chinese.
Scriptures: The Pure Land scriptures include Shorter Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra, Longer Sukhāvatīvyūha Sūtra, and the Amitāyurdhyāna Sūtra. These describe the Pure Land of Amitabha and the bliss available to those who call Amitabha to mind continually.
“The Larger Sutra is the only extant sutra that relates the narrative of how the bodhisattva Dharma-Storehouse (Dharmākara) established and fulfilled vows to become Amida (“immeasurable [light and life]”), the buddha of compassion who leads all beings to enlightenment by enabling them to be born into his buddha-field” (2).
Origin: Pure Land Buddhism started in India during the Kushan era and then spread to China from Gandhara. Pure land sects are Mahayana Buddhism schools which became institutionalised and formed sects when it entered Japan from Korea. The sects representing Pure Land Buddhism include Jodoshu and Jodo Shinshu.
In the 12th century, Honan simplified the teachings of this sect and it became immensely popular. Shinran was his disciple and started his own school called Jodo Shinshu Buddhism. Jodo Shinshu Buddhism, or Shin Buddhism, is based upon the teachings and writings of Shinran Shonin (1173-1262) and Rennyo Shonin (1415-1499). “Shonin” is a Japanese term that means sage or master. “Jodo Shinshu” means literally “True Pure Land Sect” (1). Shinran Shonin and Rennyo Shonin are two prominent masters of this school of Buddhism taught in Japan. Master Shinran expounded the “True Pure Land Way,” or the path whose practice is LISTENING DEEPLY to the Dharma preached by Shakyamuni Buddha in the Larger Pure Land Sutra. This practice entails total faith in and reliance upon Amida Buddha, the Buddha of Infinite Light and Life (1).
Amitabha Buddha: Amitabha Buddha was once a mortal king who, in his desire to attain nirvana, approached Buddha Lokeshvararaja, who is spoken of in the Larger Pure Land Sutra. In his quest for nirvana, Amitabha relinquished his kingdom, riches, and privileges and, after many austere measures and practices, became a Boddhisattva, calling himself Dharmakara. Dharmakara means “Dharma store house.”
Bodhisattva Dharmakara asked Buddha Lokeshvararaja to show him all the billions of buddha-lands of the cosmos. When he was granted this request, Bodhisattva Dharmakara determined to create a Pure Land of his own, containing all the virtues of the other buddhas’ buddha-lands but without any of the evils in those buddha-lands. He then was inspired to make 48 Vows, detailing the attributes of his Pure Land which he intended and vowed to create. The most outstanding of these vows is presented in the Larger Pure Land Sutra as Vow 18, otherwise called the Primal Vow, which reads as follows: “If, when I attain Buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten quarters who sincerely and joyfully entrust themselves to me, desire to be born in my land, and call my Name, even ten times, should not be born there, may I not attain perfect Enlightenment. Excluded, however, are those who commit the five gravest offences and abuse the right Dharma.” Other Buddhas vow to save all beings through performing various difficult practices that only talented people can successfully perform and only through very many lives. Bodhisattva Dharmakara wished to create a special buddha-land where ALL beings can IMMEDIATELY be saved and become fully enlightened buddhas, whether male or female, young or old, good or evil, educated or illiterate (1).
Salvation by Faith: Thus, Amitabha Buddha provides the easiest way for lay people to attain nirvana. Anyone who trusts and believes in him and takes refuge in him will enter the “Pure Land of Bliss.” Amitabha Buddha, similair to Jesus, offers salvation by faith through grace.
Heaven: “In Amida’s buddha-land (what we call the Pure Land or Sukhavati), the sincere petitioner who takes single minded refuge in Amida Buddha – including the most evil reprobates – are saved and will, after death, be reborn and attain enlightenment (Buddhahood) without the confusing and conflicting pains and distractions of mortal existence and bypassing what would, without Amida’s saving grace, be countless rebirths in the lower realms of suffering” (1).
Transfer of Merit: The Boddhisattva Amitabha out of compassion for struggling humanity has accumulated vast stores of merit after practise and good works for aeons . This could be transferred to those who trust him and their good karma would outweight their bad ones and they can attain liberation and enter the world of Amitabha, the pure land of bliss.
“In brief, the Japanese Pure Land contribution to Buddhist philosophy may be said to lie in its fusion of two fundamental attitudes. On the one hand, it stands squarely upon a Mahayana Buddhist conception of enlightened wisdom as radically nondichotomous and nondual with reality, indicated with such terms as thusness, buddha-nature, and emptiness. On the other hand, it directly confronts the nature of human existence in its ineluctable finitude: karmically conditioned, discriminative and reifying in awareness, and given to the afflicting passions of attachment to a falsely conceived self surrounded by substantial objects. Through its probing religious anthropology, Japanese Pure Land thought explores the paradoxical issues of how transformative awakening can be possible for the ignorant self, how attainment as liberation from defiled self-will can occur, and the nature of the world of religious realization that unfolds within the locus of a person’s samsaric existence” (2).
Pure Land Buddhism, true to it’s Mahayana foundation, believes in non-duality as the ultimate truth and the soul-less-ness of man as its foundation along with the doctrine of Dharma and Karma.
AN APPROACH TO SHARING CHRIST USING THE TEACHINGS OF PURE LAND BUDDHISM
Karl Barth, one of the great theologians of the twentieth century, does a wonderful comparison in Church Dogmatics between Reformed Christianity and Pure Land Buddhism as taught by Honen and Shinran.
He surveyed the religious traditions of the world in search of doctrinal parallels to Christianity and concluded that it was the Japanese Pure Land tradition that provided “the most exact, comprehensive, and plausible ‘pagan’ parallel to Christianity” (Barth 1961, 1,2: 342). He expresses some shock at the depth and specificity of resemblance, commenting that the Pure Land thought of Hōnen and Shinran, in particular, “parallels not so much Roman or Greek Catholicism but rather, of all things, the Christianity of the Reformation, and therefore confronts Christianity with the question of its truth precisely in its form as a consistent religion of grace” (2).
The following are examples of the parallels I’ve found between Pure Land Buddhism and Christianity and how Christianity stands superior in comparison:
1.Amithaba Buddha as a shadow of Christ. Amithaba is not a historical figure, but Christ is and He in reality provides the much longed for salvation that was revealed to these people through the Amithaba figure.
2. Sukhavati as a shadow of the true heaven.
3. The historical reality of Christ as opposed to the myth of the Amithaba Buddha. The great number of manuscript evidence for the Gospels coupled with the external evidence through the Talmud and the writings of Jewish historian Josephus and Roman historians Tacitus, Thallus, and Seutonius give strong proof for the reality of Jesus, his miracles, his death, and resurrection. Amithaba is not supported by such historically reliable evidences.
4. Double imputation in Christ vs transfer of merit of Amithaba to the devotee. In Christ, our sins are dealt with and His merit is transferred to us. In Amithaba, the sins are not dealt with; there is simply a transfer of merit so that the good merits outweigh the bad ones and the believer in Amithaba enters the pureland of bliss after his death.
5. The name of Jesus vs the name of Amitaba. The name of Christ is the highest given to man. There is authority in the name of Jesus. All prayers are made in the name of Jesus because it is only through Him that we can appraoch God. No vain repetition or chanting of the name of Christ is encouraged or taught in Christianity. Chanting the name of Amitaba in Pure land is one of the ways of attaining salvation. This recitation of the name of Buddha Amithaba is called nembutsu. Saying “Namu Amida Butsu” with conviction certifies that one attains birth in the Pure Land.
6. Justice. Justice is not served in Pureland, whereas Christ takes up the punishment and justice is obtained. One good deed cannot cancel a bad deed.
7. Faith as persuation based on evidence(objective and subjective) vs blind faith in Amitabha. Amitabha has not demonstrated his love in a verifiable manner. Christ, on the other hand, demonstrated his love in a historical verifiable manner so that even after 2000 years we are able to historically and archeologically demostrate what Christ said and did.
8. The Bible vs the Pure Land Sutras. The Bible has the greatest number of manuscript evidence, and its historical reliability has been established. It is not so with the Pure Land Sutras.
9. Assurance of salvation vs wishful thinking of nembutsu. The historically reliable Christ gives personal evidence to the individual by granting him a clean conscience, freedom from sins, peace of mind, and His presence through the Holy Spirit who will always be with the believer and guide him in the right path.
10.Personal relationship with Jesus vs Personal relationship with Amithaba. The great historical evidences for the resurrection and the appearances of Jesus to Paul and a group of five hundred after the resurrection (the veracity of which was sealed by the blood of the martyred eyewitnesses) give sufficient proof to the reality of Jesus and the resurrection. Personal experience adds to this list of proofs. These justify a personal relationship with Jesus. The life of Amithaba is not historically verifiable and lacks credibility. Any belief in it is just blind faith which is not based on evidence.
References:
1.http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/amida.html
2. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/japanese-pure-land/
3. http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/subdivisions/pureland_1.shtml
What a sad article. Instead of seeing the beauty of the similarities between beliefs, its author can only foster his manichaeist view of the world (we Christians, are the good ones; the others are the bad ones). The text is more for a bad piece of religious proselytism than for a really informative article.
Classics of Christians are intolerant and rude
According to you which is the true Buddhism because Jodo Shinshu is Pseudo Buddhism??????
Respect the beliefs of other people
They are immature spiritual
Classics of Christians are intolerant and rude
According to you which is the true Buddhism because Jodo Shinshu is Pseudo Buddhism
Respect the beliefs of other people
They are immature spiritual
“No vain repetition or chanting of the name of Christ is encouraged or taught in Christianity”
Except, you know, for St. Paul’s command to pray always and the fact that monks pray the name of Jesus day and night.
But I wouldn’t expect Evangelicals who think Pure Land is “Pseudo-Buddhism” to know anything about Christianity either.
Interestingly, Karl Barth said that Jodo Shinshu, of all Buddhist schools, comes closest to Evangelical Protestant theology, but he said that what’s lacking in Jodo
Shinshu’s understanding of free grace is a recognition of God’s wrath. I
would argue, against Barth, that for grace to be truly free, there must
be no wrath to fear in order to receive it.
Furthermore, the Pure Land sutras clearly state that Amida has already attained Buddhahood, and Jodo Shinshu teaches that Amida
is the greatest of all Buddhas. This is contrary to Barth saying that Amida hasn’t attained Buddhahood yet:
https://books.google.com/books?id=TAXUAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA342&lpg=PA342&dq=%22amida%22+%22wrath%22+%22barth%22&source=bl&ots=ewVYERxqC-&sig=gdar6lbPvOE_BWQ5qg3AXd0aqOU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwBGoVChMIt-2P7bikxwIVRKSICh336wdd#v=onepage&q=%22amida%22%20%22wrath%22%20%22barth%22&f=false
It seems that Barth didn’t even read the relevant texts involved before commenting on them, which is typical of Evangelical Christians when evaluating other religions. Never mind the fact that Honen and Shinran preached free grace three hundred years before Martin Luther.
Also, one who has attained Buddhahood is neither a human nor a god, but a
Buddha. One who has attained Buddhahood knows all things, sees all
things, hears all things, and can be in any place, at any time, to
alleviate the suffering of others. This is the human becoming superhuman. For all those who call on the name of Amida, he will grant the gift of Buddhahood after death as a free gift, as taught by Jodo Shinshu and the Pure Land sutras.
Just because a famous theologian said something, that doesn’t mean he
knew what he was talking about. Since Barth had a 35 year, live-in
affair while being married, I will choose Honen and Shinran as my
teachers over Barth. I’m sorry but that’s the truth.
The comparison is bias and not based on both scriptures of the this two religions.
If we want to make a scholarly comparison, we should take into considerations the scriptures of both religion and we must provide clear verses/sentences from the scriptures of both traditions,so that it will not sound bias.
For example in this area: Justice and Salvation
#6. Justice. Justice is not served in Pureland, whereas Christ takes up the punishment and justice is obtained. One good deed cannot cancel a bad deed.
Let us take for example. The concept of ETERNAL HELL/Damnation of Christianity which is imposed by GOD. Where is justice there when for example a man lives 40 yrs. here on earth and die, but because he was not able to follow God’s will he was destined to eternal fire. Are we sure that within that span of 40 yrs. that certain man did only bad deeds and no single good deed he had done for him to be sentenced ETERNALLY in HELL? IS 40 yrs. of existence while breaking some commandments equivalent to life eternal in hell?
However in the Pure Land as based on the Pure Land Sutras evil persons will be saved by Amitabha from hell (which is not eternal in Buddhist perspective) if that person was able to chant the Buddha’s name single-heartedly during the brink of the end of his life. But he has a special prison in the Pure Land while waiting for the right time that the prison will be open and he will be able to hear again the Glorious Dharma taught directly by Amitabha Buddha. But during his stay inside that prison although he will be treated well (with no fires and agonizing pain), he will just feel that there is something empty within him and this would cause sorrow to him because he want to realize the Highest Enlightenment but he can’t because of his situation. But after some thousands of years he will be freed from that prison after serving his sentence in paying his bad deeds and that time he will be able to listen to the Glorious Dharma.
#9. Assurance of salvation vs wishful thinking of nembutsu.
Let us give a verse clearly stating the assurance of salvation through Jesus Christ. Such as like John 3:16 “For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever BELIEVES in him shall not perish but shall have eternal life”.
However by not being biased, if we believed in Jesus then we should believed what he said in Mathew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” The question is what is/are the will of Jesus’s Father? IF we say it is the Ten Commandments or the Two Greatest Commandments Jesus said, is there any Christian who does the will of the Jesus’s Father? Is there any Christian who fulfills this will?
On the other hand let us take into consideration the Primal Vow of the Buddha Amitabha as conveyed in the Infinite Life Sutra.
Vow no. 18 “If, when I attain buddhahood, sentient beings in the lands of the ten directions who sincerely and joyfully entrust themselves to me, desire to be
born in my land, and think of me even ten times should not be born there,
may I not attain perfect enlightenment. Excluded, however, are those who
commit the five grave offenses and abuse the Right Dharma.”
So if we observe clearly here is the main difference between Jesus and Amitabha Buddha with regards to the vow of saving sentient beings. Jesus frankly says that not all who worship or call him Lord will be save on the other hand Amitabha Buddha ensures that all who call’s His name will be saved except only for those who commit the five gravest offences and abuse the Right Dharma.
Dear Rej, Your understanding of Christianity is incomplete.
28Therefore they said to Him (Jesus), “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one(Jesus) he has sent.”John 6
“All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.” John 6:39
The problem with man according to Jesus is that we are Slaves of Sin, we are Spiritually dead. We cannot but sin. 34 “Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.” John 8.
The Solution:
According to Jesus man needs to be made spiritually alive or get born again.
“3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again[b] he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c]”
By getting born again one enters into a relationship with God. He now has a new nature, which enables him with the empowerment of the Holy Spirit to learn to live according to the teachings of Christ.
Only then he can learn to live according to the commands of Jesus.
“11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.” Titus 2
When Jesus says ‘Not everyone who calls me Lord will enter heaven,but only he who does the will of the father” he is talking about the Sermon on the mount. Christians are commanded to take the sermon on the mount seriously and practise it. But that can happen only after they come into a relationship with God. Only after becoming born-again does God give the Holy Spirit who will teach the believer, train the believer to live according to the teachings of Christ. That dose not mean perfection. God is not requiring perfection from us as Christ has fulfilled that requirement and has imputed his righteousness to us. But God does require us to change the motive and basis for our lives so that we learn to live according to the teachings of Christ and grow towards maturity and perfection. As long as someone remains in Christ, he will never lose his Salvation. As long as there is on-going transformation and growth in Spiritual maturity, he can have assurance of Salvation, that God will not condemn him for his imperfection because Christ has paid the penalty for all the sins of the believer as thus God sees him as perfect as Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to the believer.
Christian salvation is not about performance but about accepting our inability to perform and receive forgiveness and empowerment through the Holy Spirit to learn to live according to the teachings of Christ. God also protects believers and the believer can have assurance or certainty that his sins are forgiven and that he will be in heaven anytime he dies.
So the steps in Salvation: Regeneration(Born again)- Justification(made righteous by Christ’s merit) – Sanctification (the process of deliverance from sin till death) – Heaven(Perfection with resurrected body).
Most important of all I don’t see any reason why we should believe in Amithaba Buddha because he is not a real person who lived in history as there is no historical evidence for Amithaba Buddha. When we believe in Christ, his promises, we are believing a true person and his teachings, who revealed God in history, and who proved it through his resurrection.
Actually you don’t have the enough knowledge about the depth and breadth of Pure Land Buddhism. Sorry to tell you that Samuel and your teaching a wrong idea. The Teaching on Amitabha Buddha is delivered and taught also of a historical person and that’s the Shakyamuni Buddha. If you don’t understand Buddhism surely you’ll never understand the profound meaning of the term “Amitabha Buddha”. Don’t even think that the Amitabha Buddha is a separate entity from sentient beings. The Pure Land Sutras are but a skillful means of the Shakyamuni Buddha to tell the True Law.
However as you said we must believe in Jesus (as a person of history) but how can we believe if even the three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) does not even agree with each other about who Jesus is and what’s his message. Islam says “Jesus is just a prophet and didn’t die on the cross”. Judaism does not even recognize Jesus as a Prophet but an enemy. While Christianity claims Jesus as a Son of God, God himself (anyways there are very many types of belief in Jesus in Christianity even Christians does not even understand Jesus’ identity there are sects who says he is just a man, others says he is son of god but not God, others says He and God is one and many other theories) see even you as Christians don’t even understand and therefore not united in seeing What and Who Jesus is. However this is another loophole in Christian faith and this is about “Who Jesus really is?” varied answers and all claim to be true. Logic how can all answers be true if they all contradicts each other. This means one is true and the other’s are false. Lesson here Samuel, try first to fix your own Church and Faith before you go to others and preach about their faith wherein fact even you inside your faith does not know what true and correct about the person you put your faith. therefore how can you understand others if you yourself within your faith does not understand your own 🙂
All the orthodox churches – Roman catholic, Protestant and Eastern orthodox agree on who Jesus is according to the council of Nicea. There is no confusion or diagreement there. The Church is very much united on this. Anyone who does accept the nicean creed proclaiming the nature of Christ is considered a non-christian sect. Trinity is one doctrine which unites all the various churches and denominations. We clearly understand our own position regarding Jesus. There is no confusion.
What is the difference between Pure Land Buddhism and Theravada Buddhism? Why are you a Pureland Buddhist and not a Theravada Buddhist??
All orthodox churches but not all Christians. I knew it because I live in a region where there are very many sects of Christianity with there own doctrine. Even of Jesus’ identity varies from one Church to another. Trinity is not accepted in other Christian churches and many Christian churches here are disproving that doctrine of Trinity along with the Muslims.
Simple question with simple answer. A Buddhist may be a Theravada or a Mahayana since the Buddha have presented a variety of ways in achieving one goal which is Nirvana this is what we call skillful means which is in accord to the capacity of the believer. All Buddhist adhere to the Triple Gem (Buddha, Dharma and Sangha). All Buddhist aspires Nirvana and nothing else.
Analogy in Roman Catholic Church we have orders of priest and monks, we have Jesuits, Dominicans, SVJ and many more.. and this is same within Buddhism, we Theravada school and Mahayana School and each school is divided in many sub-schools wherein each school cater a specific spiritual sickness of man in order for him to achieve the one goal which is Nirvana since the Buddha is like a Great Physician, as a Physician he will give a specific medicine for a specific illness, there’s a medicine for cough, a medicine for fever, for headache, toothache and many more but with one goal and that is to ease the suffering of that person
Dear Rej, If anyone does not believe in the deity of Christ as per the Nicene creed he is not a Christian, he is a non-Christian. Period.
Did Buddha preach Mahayana or Theravada? I see that he taught Theravada. Mahayana is a later invention. I don’t think you can compare the orders of Roman Catholicism with Buddhist sects. Are not Sutras of the Theravada and Mahayana schools different? Do Theravada Buddhists believe in Amitabha or accept him as Boddhisatva?
Anyone can start a sect with his own doctrines. That does not make it Christian. What makes it Christian is it’s adherance to the Right Doctrines of faith and behaviour. I stand for the historic Christian faith as passed down through the Apostles of Christ and preserved down the centuries.
Why do you believe the teachings of the Buddha blindly? Have you ever questioned them? How do you know they are not wrong? Have you studied all your Mahayana Sutras?
I have never believe the Buddha blindly, It’s a fact and establish teaching as per recorded in the Sutra that the Buddha urges his followers to investigate his teaching and not accept blindly his doctrine.
One could never study all Mahayana sutras since it counts for a thousands a yet all sutras teaches one same Truth, one same Dharma. There are numerous sutras since there are different audiences of the Buddha. Each sutra is delivered for a specific audience. The Buddha did not teach for a person to be a scholar and parroting the sutras but he teaches for persons to achieve Nirvana and to escape from the false teachings of other religions.
BTW, here’s the gist of all sutras taught by the Buddha “do good, avoid evil and purify your minds.” This the very gist of his teachings in order to achieve Nirvana.
I’ll throw back the question to you?? have you read all books pertaining to your guide since I think you bible lacks other books it was just a declaration of the Roman Catholic Church to have those books included in your new testament, so what about those other gospel.. gospel of thomas, peter, barnabas, mary magadelene, philip.. as well as the acts of thomas, peter and other disciples, the apocalypse of thomas and other disciples.. why choose a specific books to be included in your bible? have you ever question your church? or you just blindly accept its decisions blindly?
So Rej, you blindly believe the sutras which you have not studied.
Dear, So you know what all the Sutras teach without having read it? Thatz amazing! How do you even know they
what all the sutras teach if you have not read them??
We accept only eye witness accounts which are true Gospels and not the secong century later developments called gnostic gospels, which are myths.
That’s really amazing since the Buddha have a central topic and it is centered in to two universal Truths and that is about Middle Way and Law of Cause and Effect and centered also in a the method of attaining Nirvana and that is the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eight-fold Path. This is what the Buddha told in his Last Sutra.
BTW, about your bible, It was just during the council of Nicea that your church decide what books to be included, those other books which does not take the taste by those 300 bishops or is opposed to the views of this council were not included and burned and even those persons where burned and killed by this church with the favor of Constantine. And taliking about myths?? ohh come on your bible is full of myths.. from the very beginning. from the Genesis itself these are myths, and as well as a very distorted history.
I think rej, you should know how the cannon of the bible was developed in the 2nd century itself, before constantine ever was born. Nicea council was convened to put an end to the Arian heresy.
I think you have not looked into the evidences for the Bible. It is very strong. But if yo are not willing to look into evidence then it’s up to you to make up things or believe whatever you want.
Yes, your bible gives a very strong evidence of a jealous, self-centered, war-freaked god and even triggering humans to do immoral deeds.
I don’t make up things your bible just give the evidences.
Actually, 2nd century, that’s for the primitive christian church prior to the formation of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church, however, the most common bible does not include the texts which are present in the Eastern Churches bibles.
It is true that the main aim of the Council of Nicea is to put an end to the Arian heresy and thus formation also of the unified belief of the Roman Catholic Apostolic Church, and thus today, bible of the western and eastern churches are not of same number of books and does not contain same views. Even R.C church and the Non-R.C. churches does not have same number of books.
Are you seriously so absurd as to claim justice had been done after an innocent person was punished for the crimes of the guilty??? That by definition is unjust!!!! To punish a person for things he did not commit !
Your Objection: “The concept of ETERNAL HELL/Damnation of Christianity which is imposed by GOD. Where is justice there when for example a man lives 40 yrs. here on earth and die, but because he was not able to follow God’s will he was destined to eternal fire. Are we sure that within that span of 40 yrs. that certain man did only bad deeds and no single good deed he had done for him to be sentenced ETERNALLY in HELL? IS 40 yrs. of existence while breaking some commandments equivalent to life eternal in hell?”
Answer: God is perfectly good, gracious, merciful and just. We can trust his judgment. We need not create hypothetical situations and then try to be God judging those situations and people in them. God is omniscient and he judges people perfectly. We cannot criticize the perfect judgment of God because we are not perfect nor omniscient. Our understanding of God itself is limited, let alone how he will judge a particular person from a particular time in history who has lived a particular life or done a particular thing because of whatever reasons. We must be humble and trust God nor criticize the perfect one. It is in his goodness and grace that we are even able to have this discussion. I don’t think that man can sit here and try to judge another man or another soul like God does because God is Holy or morally perfect and his justice is also perfect. There will be no mistakes.
Actually this is the very loophole of your doctrine of a “perfectly good, gracious, merciful and just” god.
The belief of not exercising a free will to ask and investigate is a basis of what we call BLIND FAITH.
how can a “perfectly good, gracious, merciful and just” god throw a person in hell eternally?? What?? truly indeed he is very good and gracious. hehe
this is same question and problem I ask when I was a Christian/Catholic Faith Defender wherein my co-defenders present the same answer and does not answer the question but assert a Blind Faith.
Because the root problem of man is not that he has not obeyed this or that command but that he is in active rebellion against God. The disobedience is the result of the rebellion.
God sends people to hell because he is perfectly Just not just perfectly Love and people who go to hell have active rejected or rebelled against him, which is expressed through continuing in sin and not repenting and not receiving the forgiveness of God. We do not know who they all are. But God certainly knows.
Goodness requires that justice is served and the sinner is punished. In his grace Jesus has taken our penalty for our sins. Now he offers forgiveness and remission of sins. When people actively reject this offer, they remain in their sins and they are justly punished for their sins.
My question is how did you reach a conclusion about how a perfect, omniscient God will judge a particular man? It is generally revealed that those who resist God’s offer of grace do not receive forgiveness of sins and thus reach hell. God does not judge someone who has received knowledge of the Gospel the same way God judges someone who has not received knowledge of Gospel.
You are assuming that you can know something which you cannot, something which is beyond our grasp. Your assumption is faulty. God’s graciousness and love has been demonstrated on the cross. “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 5:8
The problem of man is not of disobeying any god but the problem of man is his greed and worldly desires, that causes man suffering and cause him to find ease to it by seeking external refuge such us believing in god in order just to pacify his suffering but in reality it is but man himself act to pacify his suffering and not any external source.
Form your own comment >>> “My question is how did you reach a conclusion about how a perfect, omniscient God will judge a particular man? It is generally revealed that those who resist God’s offer of grace do not receive forgiveness of sins and thus reach hell.”
See this how limited the mercy and grace of your god that if a person rejects his offer he will automatically condemn that person to hell. Your god is acting like a child that if not given a toy he will automatically get angry. If your god is so merciful even those who resist his offer must still be saved not eternally condemn anyone because he simply resist. Your god must try harder to persuade those persons even if he must persuade them even for the whole eternity he must this is if his mercy, love and grace is not limited.
This is what the Buddha is doing eternally making sentient beings be awakened to their true nature of Pure Consciousness using varied skillful means.
God’s punishing unrepentant sinner is good because even if they reach heaven without their will they will not enjoy heaven because they have not chosen to be good, they have not decided to change. They don’t want God. There is no point taking them to heaven. They will not like or enjoy it as it is against their will and they don’t love God.
I think the cross is a very powerful persuasion of God and in expressing his love through the cross God has reveled his perfect Love to man.
God will not save a man against his will because this salvation involves a love relationship with God. God will not force himself on anyone. He will offer his relationship. But any man should choose to enter that relationship.
See, from your comment. that’s how limited your god’s patience is. He could not make a way that man would like him and so he decided to eventually throw them to hell. He is acting like a common person. The cross (if true, since Muslims never believe that Jesus (Isa in Islam) was crucified) is not a powerful persuasion not even a good one, since if you can notice even Christians does not shove away sins from themselves, many so-called Christians sin against your god. As Romans 6:15 states “I ask again: are we to sin because we are not under the Law, but under grace? Certainly not!”. This is a statement that Christians should not sin anymore since they are under grace and not of the law anymore.
The Buddha is very different, his patience is boundless that even for eternity he would try to create an able device just to lead those that gone astray to follow the right. This is not forcing anyone to accept him but the Buddha waits even for eternity just to save man from his sufferings. Yes, an evil man may fall in hell but because the Buddha have turned the Wheel of Law, that man in hell will just pay his violations then learn his lessons and eventually be given another chance to walk the path towards Nirvana and the Buddha have never gone weary of doing such for the whole eternity so long as there is sentient beings that should be save.
“As Romans 6:15 states “I ask again: are we to sin because we are not under the Law, but under grace? Certainly not!”. This is a statement that Christians should not sin anymore since they are under grace and not of the law anymore.”
Yes that is the truth. Grace is not an excuse for sinning. God does not forgive so that we can remain in sin. A christian slowly learns to overcome sin. He does not intend to sin. He intends not to sin. But because of his ignorance and weakness, he sins. That problem is addressed in the later part of the Epistle to Romans chapter 7
“14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! ”
Rej, man needs deliverance from his sinful nature. Jesus Christ delivers me from that sinful nature and helps me develop Christ nature. I learn from Christ to win in this struggle with sin and sinful nature. It is a process.
Your quotation of Biblical passages is called ‘proof-texting’ and ‘out of context’ reading.
The text above delivered by Paul and not of Jesus. Is a clear message that Paul and other god-worshiping people are blind and ignorant of their True nature. You believe that you are of sinful nature that’s why you act or do bad deeds and this gives you that reason that you can’t overcome your “sinful nature” that’s why you sin. This is a work and belief of those who lacks faith in their own capability, this is an excuse of those ignorant to the Truth even to the Truth of their own true nature.
That’s why I beg to disagree man needs deliverance from his sinful nature (there’s no concept of sin in Buddhism, the concept of sin is just made by those god-worshiping people who believe that they are transgressing a commandment given by a god) but instead man needs deliverance from his ignorance about his True Nature and that is Buddha-nature . However, Since the true nature of man is not sinful but it is of Buddha-nature, a true nature of Pure Consciousness the problem of man is his ignorance and how to be freed from this ignorance to this True nature and that is of being Pure and of Buddha-nature. That’s why man need to be awakened and fully realized this Original True and Pure Nature in each man and the awakening and realization of this True, Pure Nature of Consciousness and Buddha-nature is taught by the Buddha.
If you say that I’m proof-texting and “out-of-context” reading then why do you agree in the first part of your comment. Then,Christians should refrain of doing such also, instead of giving others a single verse from a chapter, you Christians when you evangelize (teaching others to be more ignorant of the Truth) should give your listener the whole passage/chapter and not a single verse, actually this is your practice, giving a single verse then explaining it just to make your teaching nice but in reality not, and when there’s opposition you run to another verse to support your own position then if you are not able to escape you then give the reason your are “proof-texting” and “out-of-context”.. this is a very common strategy of Christian debaters and defenders. I know such because I had been one of these Christian debaters and defenders years ago.
You’ve said you believe in Trinity, therefore read your own testament, and you’ll see how bad, tyrant, war-freaked and blood-thirsty your god is. Even your Jesus has this kind of mentally, for what good is a man when instead of blessing a tree to bear fruit curses it (Matt. 21: 18-22).. see your Jesus demonstrated his ignorance of his Pure Consciousness since if he is awakened to his True nature he must not have curse the fig tree but instead he (having supernatural powers) should have bless it so that it may have fruit and thus be a benefit for others, but he made the contrary and boast what he did to his disciples, even though he knows the power of faith but because of his ignorance to the Pure Consciousness he had made this boastful and destructive thing and made it a bad example of the power of faith. How pitiful this is! And many Christians rejoice this act of the power of faith demonstrated by Jesus, this story have even taught in Sunday schools and sermons. How lamentable!
Again I say: the true nature of man is not sinful but the true nature of man is Pure Consciousness or we say Buddha-nature. In which one must be awaken. No one can save but yourselves alone, no one may and no one can. Even your Jesus who is by example haven’t awakened the Pure Consciousness could not save you.
Dear rej, God gives salvation as a gift. It is not a work of self as Buddha said. The sick needs a doctor. Man cannot heal himself. Man’s original nature is not sinful. But his acquired or inherited nature is sinful.
When christian evangelists use scripture they know the context and they are exegiting and applying it and rightly quoting the verse.
Dear Rej, This is the message Jesus wants you to know today. “Jesus loves you and he has demostrated his love for you on the cross of Calvary”.
The sick needs a doctor and the Doctor is the Buddha. The ignorant needs a Teacher and the teacher is the Buddha. Man’s original nature is Pure consciousness, Buddha-nature. Man does not inherit anything but just reap what he have sown in his daily life. thus, if one do wholesome karma and so that man shall reap benefits.
There is non-self as the Buddha taught.
The Buddha’s message for you today is to find deliverance from your suffering and don’t be ignorant. He have unconditional compassion for you Samuel, and all of the others who are ignorant of their passions and does not know that we are in a burning house. This Unconditional Compassion of the Buddha wants to tell you that we have only one Goal and that is Nirvana. None shall dwell eternally in hell but all will be saved, and the Buddha will never left anyone behind. You may falter to believe now but in future lives the Buddha will wait for you to save you from the fires of this Burning House, it is up to you whether you accept this teaching now or not, none will force you to do so, however the Buddha gives you his Unconditional Compassion so that you will realized the True Bliss and Peace of Life in the state of Nirvana and be a Buddha, for you are not a subject to anyone, nor anyone be subject unto you, for all sentient beings may they be gods and men are in reality equal.”
Dear rej, you said earlier,”No one can save but yourselves alone, no one may and no one can” . That’s why I replied Jesus will save. But now you are responding with Buddha will save. Why this contradiction? Which do you believe in “NO ONE CAN SAVE BUT YOURSELF” or “BUDDHA WILL SAVE”?
That’s not a contradiction Samuel. That’s the problem when one is not a Buddhist, or does not have a thorough understanding of a Buddha’s teaching.
Who and What is a Buddha?? The Shakyamuni Buddha is the Buddha, I, you, we are the Buddha, there’s no separation of I, you, Shakyamuni, Amitabha and all sentient beings since all of us have the same Buddha-nature. Buddha will save you since you yourselves will save yourself, you save yourself since you are a Buddha (you must and just simply realize and be awaken to that idea).
Dear Rej, the crucifixion of Christ is one of the most well attested facts of Ancient history. That is one reason Islam is wrong.
I will not speak for Islam.. but this simple disagreement would simply tell that you don’t have a united faith and simple tells us that one of you is wrong. It might be Christian or Islam.
No body ever claimed Islam and Christianity are the same. Neither Mohammed accepted Christianity nor did the Church accept Islam as it’s part. Your idea has a wrong assumption.
Did I say Islam and Christianity are the same?? That’s the reason I say that if both of you (Christian and Islam) claimed to be a true religion and having same god, then there one of you might be wrong since the Truth is not compromised and it could not be present in the two factions having different views. One must be correct and the other is wrong. That’s what I am trying to say. I did not say Islam and Christianity is the same in their doctrines but according to the Christians and Muslims here (even until now they are at constant cold-war) your god and their god is same, your prophets and their prophets are same, but it does not mean Christian and Islam is same, you differ in your theology, in your doctrines, in your practices, in your customs and traditions. You are not understanding the thought of my previous comment.
Dear rej, how do you know greed and wordly desires are wrong? Don’t you think your moral law which designates ‘greed’ and ‘worldly desires’ requires a moral law giver, God?
Nope, I beg to disagree, It is not a god, since even god has his own “worldly desire” and “greed”.. please try to read your old testament and you’ll know how greedy, bloodthirsty and war-freak and full of worldly desire your god is.
The Buddha designates what is greed and worldly desires .. between what is right and wrong, between what is Dharma and adharma.. as well as your conscience would tell you what’s wrong and right specially if you observe the result of your deeds. The term Bodhi means conscience or Pure Consciousness wherein if one would be awaken he is called the Buddha. However, the moral law is there from the beginningless beginning and it was just the Buddha that thoroughly explains it to all sentient beings.
Dear rej, Buddha borrowed heavily from Hinduism and Jainism. His teachings are not unique to him. For claryfying your misunderstanding about God as you describe here, I request you to listen to or read Dr. Paul Copan’s “Is God a moral moster?”. Just google it. There is a one hour lecture on You Tube.
For clarification, those who does not have enough knowledge about Buddhism would say that it is similar to Hinduism and Jainism but FYI, the Buddha rejects these two ways of religious practice for these are both extremes that’s why the Buddha taught the Middle Way, this is well recorded in the Sutras.
No need to study better about your god it is clearly written in your bible and all of his workings which are full of tyranny and immorality which is far worst than any terrorist here on earth. However, I still understand the workings of your god and still your god have the chance to renew, I will not condemn your god since like any sentient beings he is also ignorant that’s why he committed those unwholesome karma recorded in your Bible, your god still needs to be awaken. I hope he will also find the path to this. Your god may be so evil (worst than any terrorist) but still because of the Unconditional Compassion of the Buddha your god still have the chance to be renewed and be awakened, just like you also.
Buddha’s concept of ‘dharma’ and ‘meditation’ as a way of obtaining ‘knowledge’ (which he did under Bodhi tree to get enlightened) and ‘Karma’ are Hindu teachings which he accepted. The concept of ‘non -violence’, compassion, denial of existence of God and Nirvana are common to both Buddhism and Jainism. He did reject what he thought was extreme in both religions. But he also borrowed a lot. Buddhism is a mix of Hindu and Jain teachings with a twist which is according to Buddha. Therefore it is Buddhism.
The term “dharma” means “teaching” Samuel it is not a concept it is a term. Meditation in Hinduism is used to be united to Brahman their supreme god, in Buddhism it is just part of the Noble Eight-fold Path and has a very different purpose. Karma simply means action Samuel, and there’s nothing wrong when the Buddha uses the same word since Hindu speaks the same language as what the Buddha used.
The concept of “non-violence” and compassion are universal Truths in order to have a peaceful life, so what’s wrong?? Does Christianity does not adhere to this?? Ohh, I see as what your history tells, your Church seems not to put value on this Universal Truths.
The Buddha did not deny the existence of gods and he didn’t deny that Brahma exist, gods do exist, even your god in such concept to exist, we don’t deny such, what the Buddha teaches is that this world and all that exist here is not created by a god or gods, life is not given by a god, and a god does not live eternally as a god but also goes the rounds of births and deaths and lastly the Buddha teaches that gods does have their own problems and also they are not capable of saving others. That’s what the Buddha teaches, he did not deny the existence of any god.
Nirvana in Hinduism and Jainism is very different from Buddhism, in Hinduism it is attained when someone’s soul is united to Brahman, in Jainism’s Nirvana this means that the soul attain a highest state of existence. While in Buddhism, soul does not exist, but Nirvana is the awaken to our Pure Consciousness or Buddha-nature and being a Buddha. The Terms are the same but the meaning and way of achieving is not the same.
Lastly, the Buddha never reject any teaching of a certain religion which is in accordance to the Universal Truths, and small specks of this Universal Truths are present in all religions.
Hello rej, How can Buddha know that God is not eternal or is the not the creator? He cannot make such a statement.
There is much evidence which points to the fact that the universe was created. The Big bang with a beginning, the fine tuning of the universe and the design in universe and in biological systems all point to the mind which was involved in creation. You may not look into the evidence but they are there. That is why the world renowned atheist ANTHONY FLEW became a theist. Here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNkxpTIbCIw
HE was able and he had made such statement Samuel, very clearly in the sutras.
The universe is created?? Not even your bible told that there are other planets and other solar-systems. Your bible does not know about that facts. Even your bible believe in a geocentric model of the universe, as the sun turning around the planet and moon also. But the Buddha 2500 yrs. ago have already taught of other planet-systems and universes, recently stumble by scientist.
The Big Bang, fine tuning of the universe and in biological systems yes does point to a “mind” but that mind is not your god since your god is just one product of the “mind”.. The Buddha clearly states that everything are created by the “Mind” this is just recently stumbled by scientist..what is that “mind” it is consciousness and it is a stream of energy (energy is well taught by the Buddha) here comes now the profound teaching of the Buddha about dependent origination. Don’t tell that someone (with flesh and bone, with form and with feelings such as greed and hatred and immorality) created the universe since the energy governing the universe is neither created not destroyed it transforms from one form to another. This is a basic concept taught by the Buddha 2500 years ago as dependent origination and transformation (FYI. non-Buddhist know this as reincarnation which is a wrong assumption) recently stumble by scientist.
Even the teaching of “emptiness” is just a recent discovery and still processed by science. The Buddha clearly teaches that the true essence of all component things are empty. Scientist tells us that we are empty, since the atom is an empty space, and the most elementary parts of the atom is just govern by energy and not really matter anymore, thus it is also empty. We arises as product of “dependent origination”, we arise as a product of relative experiences of the repulsion and interactions of these energies around us.
I know such things because I am a Physicist.
Christians want to unite their teaching with science?? this would never happen, and if you will continue trying to unite your teaching with science this will slowly destroy your ignorance and blind faith and thus will ultimately destroy your religion. What Christians do now is just pick-and-choose tactics. And it very pitiable in order just to force suiting your ideas in the scientific world.
Dear rej, You may be a Physicist but there are many Physicist who believe in the creator because of the big bang. Especially Astrophysict Hugh Ross explains beautifully how the creator is God.
Energy cannot be created does not mean that God did not create the energy. It means we cannot create energy and it is can be changed from one form to another. Secondly, the second law of thermodynamics states that energy, usable energy will keep decreasing and reach a stage called “heat death”. Which means the amount of energy in the universe is finite. Where did it come from? It was created by God.
Here is a list of CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS in history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science
What do you mean by our God is a product of a mind? How did you reach that conclusion?
See.. god created energy??? what?? very simple contradiction Samuel, the law states Energy not created nor destroyed.. thus it exist in infinity..
usable energy..now you are going to the term usable energy this simply means that when energy transform it reaches as state wherein it is no longer usable and that is heat when as a waste product which could never be transformed. This mean that energy is there still present but no longer usable with regards to human’s relative observation..
You simply don’t understand the Laws of Physics, Laws in Physics does not contradict each other. Remember two kinds of energy usable and unusable and this is in human relative observation.
see, that’s what happens when we try to fit the idea of a creator.. it will really contradict.
So?? what’s the fuss with those christian scientist, they are scientist but not awakened to the aspiration of Supreme Perfect Enlightenment. It does not mean they are correct.
Your belief about “Supreme Perfect Enlightenment” is your blind faith.
The Big Bang theory and the Singularity principle prove that the universe had a beginning and in the beginning all the energy was compressed into a ‘dot’. So there was a finite amount of energy. In the initial condition called singularity the laws of physics were not existent. They cannot exist in the state of singularity and they would break down. The laws of physics are not eternal and came into existence only after the big bang. God created energy before the first law of thermodynamics came into existence. When universe started expanding the law of physics came into existence and the first law of thermodynamics applies only after that. Therefore the energy is not eternal, neither are the laws of physics. They all came into existence and they are finite.
You may be a Physicist Rej, but you contradict Newton and other great scientists and you want me to believe you. Sorry, I will stick with the great ones.
Samuel, remember you are using the term “theory”, therefore it has flaws in it and it is not a law Samuel, you must know the difference between the two.
Buddhism does not contradict Einstein and Newton.. Einstein and Newton agrees with what the Buddha taught that the universe is expanding and it will also contract, then it will again take form to expand (Big Bang) and contract again (Big Crunch), it is just a repeated cycle without end.
“The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend personal God and avoid dogma and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description. If there’s any religion that could cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.” This is according to Albert Einstein.
So sorry Samuel, the big one seems to abandon you. 🙂
I never said Einstein, but only Newton and others like the originator of the big bang theory who himself was a cathoic priest, George lemaitre and John Polkinghorn the quantum physicist from cambridge and others given in the link.
Well there are three reason why there won’t be a big crunch. 1. Radiation Paradox
2. Entropy Paradox
3. An increase in cyclic expansion.
Secondly, the universal expansion s no longer slowing down but the expansion for the past billions of years is speeding up due to dark energy. So the endlessly bouncing universe is ruled out.
Newton believed in a creator God. Einstein believed in a Pantheistic God.
“Einstein thought his biggest mistake was refusing to believe his own equations that predicted the expansion of the Universe. Yet we now know he actually missed out on predicting something even bigger: Dark Energy.
The trouble began when he first applied General Relativity, to the entire Universe. Like everyone else, Einstein believed the Universe was static and unchanging, and was horrified when his mathematically beautiful equations predicted a dynamic Universe. So he forced himself to introduce an ugly fiddle-factor to force his equations into line with the ‘facts’. Yet at that same moment, astronomers were discovering that the facts were wrong – and that distant galaxies are racing away from each other in an expanding Universe. Once Einstein had got over the shock of failing to make the most amazing scientific prediction of all time, he declared that refusing to keep faith in his beautiful equations was “the biggest blunder of my career”.
But it didn’t stop there. In the mid 1990s, 40 years after his death, astronomers showed that his faith in his beautiful equations had been misplaced. Studies of exploding stars in distant galaxies had revealed that the Universe isn’t just expanding, it’s expanding at an ever-faster rate. The cause: a force even stronger than gravity, but acting in the opposite direction – and with no obvious source. This is the now-notorious Dark Energy, and Einstein’s theory can accommodate it. But at the price of reintroducing the same kind of ugly fiddle-factor Einstein loathed.
Most theorists believe Dark Energy has its origins in the quantum laws of the sub-atomic world, which allow even apparently empty space to be seething with energy. Given his loathing for quantum theory, it’s unlikely Einstein would be celebrating its incorporation into his most cherished work.” — Science Focus.
Your theory of big bangs and big crunches is not scientific. It has no proof. It goes beyond what can be studied. Moreover Singularity prevents the extention of “World lines” beyond singularity.
No one know what happened beyond the singularity.
Moreover, the Borde- vilenkin – Gouth Theorem predicts a boundary to past time in any universe.
You may or may not accept these things but this are the reason why I don’t believe in your theory.
Samuel, you know you’re very funny you are relying on unreliable and almost obsolete theory. Even on concepts you don’t understand. The Freidmann-Lemaitre expanding spacetime theory (Big Bang basis) is now almost obsolete. Although it the well known theory for the masses but it not the plausible one. The continues expanding universe by Freidmann-Lemaitre is just accepted until the mid-1990’s.
Is history repeating itself again, before the time of Copernicus and Galileo, your church believed in a geocentric model of the universe, then as Copernicus, Galileo and Newton and other astronomers proved that the Earth is not the center of the universe your church became enraged almost burn at stake Copernicus and Galileo since it contradict its teachings. Why is this so? because your bible tells of a geocentric model backing Ptolemy’s model..
and now your church is believing in a eternally expanding universe?? Actually I could not blame your church since the bible does not know about such things, and even your god does not know such things.
Remember, all that has mass have gravity, and gravity is an attractive force. The Loop Quantum Gravity will be responsible for such contraction. Then, the strong quantum repulsive force will start another big bang. A continuous pattern will occur. However, in quantum mechanics, we call it the Big Bounce, or the Loop Quantum Cosmology. This is in accordance with what the Buddha teaches 2500 years ago, that the universe will expand the contract, then expand then contract, endless cycle. That’s why we say we have a beginning-less universe pattern. The Big Bounce or the Loop Quantum Cosmology is the modern model of the cosmos and its cycle.
You are still believing in an obsolete theory still believed by the masses and those who are not engaged in the modern physics and quantum mechanics.
The Roman Catholic Church is not my Church. Anyway, thanks for your time, Rej. I ll keep learning.God bless.
Read more about quantum mechanics and modern physics Samuel so that you will be enlightened and order for you not to talk nonsense and give wrong conclusions specially in the field of Physics. 🙂
Don’t just live in a world of classical physics or Newtonian Physics since it could not explain the workings of this universe specially if we talk of speed near to the speed of light and length below nano-meter. Enjoy reading Samuel. 🙂
Namo Amitabha Buddha _/|_
Thanks Rej. We’ll see how things work out at the end.
Okay Samuel, just take your time and enjoy along the journey. Thank You for the time also. May you be awakened to the aspiration for the Supreme Perfect Enlightenment and as well as achieve it. Continue in seeking the Truth.
May the Buddha bless us all. Namo Amitabha Buddha _/|_
“Significantly, the use of imaginary quantities for time is an inherent feature of all Quantum Gravity Models.54 This precludes their being construed realistically as accounts of the origin of the space-time universe in a timelessly existing four-space. Rather they are ways of modeling the real beginning of the universe ex nihilo in such a way as to not involve a singularity. What brought the universe into being remains unexplained on such accounts.
With each successive failure of alternative cosmogonic theories, the Standard Model has been corroborated. It can be confidently said that no cosmogonic model has been as repeatedly verified in its predictions and as corroborated by attempts at its falsification, or as concordant with empirical discoveries and as philosophically coherent, as the Standard Big Bang Model. This does not prove that it is correct, but it does show that it is the best explanation of the evidence which we have and therefore merits our provisional acceptance.’
You an read more here:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-ultimate-question-of-origins-god-and-the-beginning-of-the-universe
I will continue to read and learn. Thank you. God bless
How did I reach that conclusion?? mygoodness.. All component things are product of the mind. That’s a very basic concept of Buddhism.
Dependent Origination and Transformation.
You really don’t know Buddhism and you’re trying to make an article as if you know??
Dear rej, our God is that mind who gives rise to other things. He is eternal and uncaused cause of all things.
your god Samuel, not ours,
And sorry i don’t really believe your god is eternal and uncaused.. It’s a question that a god that is war-freaked and causing immorality is eternal, how doomed we are if that is true.. 🙂
Our God preaches against immorality. Ahem what your ‘wrathful deities’??
In answer to the question ” How was he able?” you say just “He is able” ? That is what I am asking “HOW”?
How was he able??
He achieve Nirvana both conditional and unconditional. That’s How he was able to tell. That’s why we call him the “Buddha”. We all call him that, even non-Buddhist, you call him that. We can tell that also when we achieve Nirvana. That’s how he and we can tell.
Well that is your blind faith.
For me also, I think you’re the one having blind faith. 🙂
But if that’s what you think then there’s no problem with that, you are entitled of your own opinion. 🙂
This is very nice now that we will discuss science and religion. This is very interesting.
Anways, FYI, Buddhism is not an atheistic religion and not also theist. Atheist would really be easily blinded with theistic ideas because they don’t have strong Universal Truth and teaching to rely upon. Ignorant people about the Universal Truth would readily be fooled by wrong views of the theistic religion.
Dharma is a term as well as a concept. It is not just a term. Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism are categoried under Dharmic religions. Judaisim, Christianity and Islam are categorized under Abrahamic religions/ monotheisms. They all are not the same. But they have similarities.
Yes, I agree, they have similarities superficially but deeper sense they are different, specially within the Dharmic religions.
Dear Rej, the existence of Objective moral values is a strong argument for existence of God. It is called “moral argument for God’s argument”. You cannot have a moral law without a moral law giver. That moral law giver is God.
For more you can refer here:
http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-moral-argument-for-god
FYI again, the Buddha did not deny the existence of a god, even your god exist in this manner. Now, speaking of “moral law”, actually your god is one of the violators of the Universal Law, it is well recorded in your bible, such as triggering others to kill and many immoral acts. Your god can’t claim he is the source but he instead he is one of the violators
In Buddhism, who gives the moral law? who explains the moral law? The Buddha explains well the moral, our own conscience (Buddha-nature) distinguishes what’s wholesome and unwholesome, the Buddha-nature which is present in all sentient beings.
Dear rej, one of the ten commandments is “Do not Kill”.
God only asked evil people who were harming others to be executed, evil can be stopped and suffering of innocent can be prevented or stopped. You misunderstanding of Biblical God is profound. Killing a killer of innocent people is not at all a crime. It is part of the Justice system in any country. It is the biblical God who teaches to “Love your neighbor as yourself” Mark 12:31
21If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; And if he is thirsty, give him water to drink; Proverbs 25:21
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.Matthew 5
And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. Micah 6:8
God is the one who gives life, determines how long a person lives and then decides how and when to take it. He gives life and he takes life. It is rightly within his power, the creator and ruler to give life and take life. That is not murder. You have misunderstood.
The biblical teaching on love is very deep. ”
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” 1 corinthians 13.
Show me a passage or teaching equal to this in your belief system.
I know that commandments of yours, and even that simple commandment of yours of not killing is the most commonly violated commandment of your god.. have you even read your old testament?? it is full of genocidal wrath of your god.
I have already answered that question by requesting you watch Dr. Paul Copan’s, “Is God a Moral Monster?” on YouTube. Are you sure it is “full” of genocidal wrath? You are not willing to look into evidence. You are are giving evidence.
Yes, I am sure, and of course you Christians would defend that it is not genocidal wrath? But how did you know, did you talk to your god? are you your god? you simply reason out just to present contrasting ideas that your god is not full of wrath an anger but he is full of love.
Let’s take for example Noah’s flood (as if it occurs, let’s just say it occurs since you believe it occurs). Why do your god kill all living creatures, except those inside the ark?
You will answer those people are evil? Suppose, yes the adult ones, but what about the children? the innocent ones? are they worthy of such painful death? And it was a very useless act, years later the earth and humans again became ignorant and thus act unwholesome.
Sodom and Gomorrah.. another genocidal wrath.
the Book of Joshua, is still full of genocidal wrath.
Again the question boils down to the idea, are children and innocent ones worthy of such injustice done by your god and his “chosen people”.
I just hope this does not occur in real history.
Lastly, the concept of eternal hell is one of the main idea that your god is not a full of love but of hatred and anger.
Your answers would never satisfy a person that is not blind about your faith. Your bible gives a very firm evidence of how full of immorality, anger and hatred tour god is. You could never twist that fact by simply reasoning out of your own thinking to defend the wrong doings of your god, Samuel, why?? because you are an avid fan of your god and simply you will never find fault in him because you are blinded by your faith. It is only christianity and islam doing such, covering-up nad reasoning just to make their religions palatable to those who don’t belong to their religion.
Children even if they die here will not be judged or sent to hell. God will accept them. Justice is only for those who have crossed the age of responsibility.
It is not genocidal wrath rej, it is called Justice. Evil was punished. God the creator has the right to create and destroy. He is the one who gave everyone life. You ar eonly thinking about taking life. He gave life. They were not deserving and kept indulging in injustice and so he decided to remove them from earth. I don’t think you will ask the government not to shoot Osama or any al-qaeda militant if he enters your town and causes destruction.
Bible does not say you can know the truth by yourself. Eternal truths, truth about God is revelaed to open minds and seekers, however imperfect. Reason can help you but it cannot help you find every truth because we are finite.
Well that’s your blind faith Samuel 🙂
I can do nothing with. I have laid my arguments and sorry to tell your god again is not perfect as what you believe.
Just read again your bible and reflect and contemplate. 🙂
Thank you Rej for your time and for sharing your thoughts. It was informative and thought provoking. Keep thinking!
Thank you also for your time Samuel. May you be awaken to the Aspiration for the Supreme Perfect Enlightenment. Although it’s not really a good discussion since our topic was always the topic I have when some christians try to question Buddhism. Try to investigate more Samuel.
Anyways, I think here’s how we conclude our discussion. 🙂
In Gassho. Namo Amitabha Buddha _/|_
Samuel, actually you are not giving me any evidences. You are by nature giving me opinions of this person. But instead let’s take a look on the strong evidence presented in your bible which you hold authoritative.
Thank you again and God bless!
Fascinating comparison. How do Buddhists respond to these points?
Thank you.
Wm. Brown (also a medical doctor 🙂
Nice meeting one from the medical fraternity. God bless your work and may you be a blessing to your patients.
Most Buddhists don’t belong to the Pure Land School. Many, if not, most Buddhist refute this style of belief.