One of the accusations against Christians is that we have a psychological need to believe a fantasy. In other words, the atheist thinks that we make up a belief in God to provide comfort against the unknown. Our belief in God is like whistling as we pass through the graveyard. It doesn’t provide any real benefit but it makes us feel better.
Honesty requires that I get something out in the open. There are times when I don’t want God to exist. It would be oh so much more convenient if he did not and I could do whatever I want. There are times when I want to be god and I don’t want anyone telling me what to do.
This is the atheist position. The position that does not want God to exist and refuses to see any evidence that would point to God. I see this as more of a will issue than an intellectual one. My intellect tends to go where my will leads it. I often remember a line I heard a long time ago,
“a man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still”
God tells me to forgive, even when I don’t want to forgive. God tells me to love when I would rather hate. God tells me to respect when I feel disdain. God tells me to give when I would rather take. God tells me to value others above myself. All of these commands are difficult and I sometimes do not obey them. In those moments when I refuse obedience, I become a functional atheist; I act as if God does not exist.
Too often we see this in the church. Pastors and elders have to deal with people who write off Scriptural commands with the magic words, “it’s all in the interpretation” or “not everyone agrees with such a literal understanding.” Jesus predicted that some would fall away because of the demands of the Christian life (see Matthew 13:3-9). At one point in Jesus’ ministry his disciples referred to his teaching as a “hard saying” (John 6:60). When you examine Christianity in its entirety, it is sometimes very inconvenient.
We serve a God who does care how we behave. We do not serve a semi-senile grandfather God who always pats us on the head and says, “that’s nice.” We serve a God who demands holiness, a demand so important to him that he sent Jesus to provide for us the means of obtaining holiness.
Every moment of the day, I must choose to live according to my belief or to deny my belief in God. By God’s grace, most of the time I choose correctly and move toward deeper relationship with him. Yet, there are times when in my pride and stupidity I choose badly. When I choose badly, I am then given the opportunity to repent and choose well (1 John 1:9).
I believe in Jesus Christ because he provides the best explanation of the world I see around me. I believe in him because I think that he is indeed the truth (John 14:6). Sometimes, it is a very inconvenient truth and I do not live up to it, yet it remains the truth.
You may choose to disbelieve but please make that choice based on an accurate understanding of Christianity. Too often those who oppose God present a caricature of Christianity, a straw man easily knocked down. The real thing is far more elaborate and far more beautiful than the caricature.
… I see this as more of a will issue than an intellectual one. My intellect tends to go where my will leads it. I often remember a line I heard a long time ago,…
Rhema.
“This is the atheist position. The position that does not want God to exist and refuses to see any evidence that would point to God.”
This is an interesting statement to me. It is possible it is true for some, but I know for myself it was not. When I was a Christian and starting to lose my faith, I desperately wanted God to exist. I was begging for him to show me a sign, or give me any reason to believe he was real. I got nothing. I certainly didn’t become an atheist out of a desire for God to not be real, it was more from a lack of any good reason I could find to believe in him.
I’d agree with this. While there seems to be a massive superiority complex in many of the New Atheists, I think there are many people who genuinely tried to believe. So while it may be true for some, blanket statements don’t help anybody.
When Pilate asked Jesus to speak in
order to acquitted himself… Jesus did not give him any answer … Do you know
why Jesus did not give to Pilate any reason to convinced him? Because Pilate
was clearly see the truth and therefore he washed his hands of the blood of Christ…
So if you have the truth clear before your eyes, if you do not listen to the church and the pastors,
you will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead (Luke 16 :
31)
“if you do not listen to the church and the pastors,you will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead”
Do you really believe this? How can you even compare the two things? I don’t listen to the church pastors, therefore I would ignore someone rising from the dead? This is a ridiculous statement.
Why do you consider my statement ridiculous? explain please?
You claim that if someone won’t listen to their pastors, then they won’t be convinced by seeing someone rise from the dead. I think it is safe to say that there are plenty of people who would not believe a holy man but who would be moved by seeing someone resurrected from the dead. The two things are so far apart that to compare them just seems silly to me.
God does not leave himself without witness
Acts 14:17
Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving
you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with
plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.”
If you want to see God, you will see him and hear him clearly through nature, church, pastors and even through a kid.
He is talking to you every day just wait, listen and don’t refuse
What about the times when it doesn’t rain when it is supposed to and the crops don’t grow? What about the people who starve, who aren’t provided with food?
Simply pointing to nature as evidence of God doesn’t work for me. All of the things you mentioned as evidence can exist just fine without any supernatural being.
We have now two different subjects, the first is: who controls the nature, and the second is: why suffering?
For the first, I like to ask you simply: do you have any doubt that the sun will rise tomorrow?
If you answer: “yes, I have doubt”, then you are right
there is no superpower that controls the nature.
If you answer: “no, I have no doubt”, then you trust implicitly a superpower that controls the nature.
Second, if God exists, why we are suffering in the world?
I will answer you through 4 related questions
1- Why suffering exists in the world?
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life ( Genesis 3:17)
Suffering in the world is simply our punishment.
2- Why we are still suffering even after the salvation?
If Jesus promised us to protect us from suffering, then all what is written in the bible is false, because we are still suffering.
Let us check what Jesus tells his disciples and followers: “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me” ( Matthew 24:9)
“They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison”(Luke 21:12)
Also Jesus tells frankly all the Christians:“In the world you will have tribulation” (John 16:33)
This means that Jesus did not promise us to protect us against the pain even if we believe in him
3- If God will not protect those who believe in him, so why should I believe in him?
Although Jesus told us: “In the world you will have tribulation”, he continued saying:” But be of good cheer, I have overcome the world” (John 16:33)
“For that he himself has suffered, being tempted, he is able to aid those who are tempted” (Heb 2:18)
God did not promise us to prevent suffering, yet he promised to help us to pass over the pain.
4- What is the gain of the pain? What I should accept suffering?
“…And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations,
knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope and hope does not disappoint” ( Romans 5:3-5)
“My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces
patience” (James 1:20)
Considering trials as a test for patience lifts one up to a higher plane, leads one through the narrow gate to
eternity.
“By your patience possess your souls” (Luke 21:19)
5- Just one question “Is there anything new done by Jesus in this issue?
In the Divine Liturgy according to Saint Gregory the Theologian, you read: “You, Master have turned my punishment into salvation.”
Yes, Jesus have turned the pain which
was our punishment into a trusted way to eternity, you do not need to do anything but to accept and obey.
We have more than 2 subjects because you are all over the place. I stand by my previous statement that your statement “if you do not listen to the church and the pastors,you will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead”
is ridiculous.
Yes I do a mistake because my first statement is not suitable for you, it is better to ignore it, and think of my last statement.
But do you stand by the statement? Or do you think it may be a bit rash to claim there is no one who would reject the word of a pastor, but who could be convinced by someone raising from the dead?
Think about the heart of that claim, essentially the message is that people who reject the teachings of the church are just closing off their minds. They don’t care what evidence comes along, they will no change their minds no matter what. Perhaps there are some people out there like that, but to insist that anyone who rejects the word of a pastor must fall in this category seems a bit rash to me.
Think about it from the perspective of an outsider. There is a pastor over here, priest over there, imam there, other holy men in various places. All of them are preaching various things which have plenty of similarities, but yet contradict one another in many ways. They can’t all be right. I’m not just going to listen to the pastor and trust him, I want a reason why he is right and the others are wrong. Does this fact automatically mean I’m going to ignore seeing a dead man be resurrected?
It’s not just “not suitable for me”, it’s a ridiculous claim.
So you stop at my first statement and refuse to go forward with my last statement, it is o.k, do you want to see a man resurrected from the dead to believe?
Jesus had resurrected from the dead
The problem is that you just look for a reason to believe, why don’t you try to find a reason to refuse?
I am interesting in having a conversation, but I’m not interested in a gish gallop. What is the point of writing a thoughtful response if your next comment is just going to be on another subject?
My issue with your statement is that there is a lot of middle ground between just believing what a priest says and seeing someone resurrected from the dead.
As for what I would accept as evidence, I don’t know. When I see some I’ll examine it for what it is. The stronger it is, the more I can deduce from it. What if, for example, I saw someone resurrected from the dead. My first guess would be that I’m being tricked. But suppose I was convinced that it wasn’t a trick. What could it be? Perhaps God, perhaps some advanced technology that I’m not aware of, perhaps aliens, perhaps a super powerful being but not an all powerful universe creator (why would I jump all the way to the incredibly powerful God of the bible?). Someone being resurrected would be earth shattering for sure, but it would prompt more questions.
As for reasons to refuse, I have plenty. Problem of evil is a good start.
What do you means with the problem of evil?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil
Basically, if God is all knowing, all loving, and all powerful why is there evil in the world. Small things can be explained with things like “it makes you stronger” and stuff, but it is hard to reconcile big things. How could the holocaust have happened? Why would God allow something so horrific to happen? He supposedly knows about it (omniscient), cares about the people being hurt by it (omnibenevolent) and able to do something (omnipotent). So what is the deal?