Examining atheism from the vantage point of Christianity motivates a Christian to ask two questions. First, “what would I gain if I convert to atheism?” Second, “is there any value to the benefits stockpiled from atheism?”
What would I gain if I convert to atheism?
Thankfully, the “Creed” penned by the English poet and music journalist Steve Turner reflects the panoramic voice of an atheist whose godless worldview mandates an embrace of relativism:
We believe in Marxfreudanddarwin
We believe everything is OK
as long as you don’t hurt anyone
to the best of your definition of hurt,
and to the best of your knowledge.
We believe in sex before, during, and after marriage.
We believe in the therapy of sin.
We believe that adultery is fun.
We believe that sodomy’s OK.
We believe that taboos are taboo.
We believe that everything’s getting better
despite evidence to the contrary.
The evidence must be investigated
And you can prove anything with evidence.
We believe there’s something in horoscopes UFO’s and bent spoons.
Jesus was a good man just like Buddha, Mohammed, and ourselves.
He was a good moral teacher though we think
His good morals were bad.
We believe that all religions are basically the same –
at least the one that we read was.
They all believe in love and goodness.
They only differ on matters of creation,
sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.
We believe that after death comes the Nothing
Because when you ask the dead what happens
they say nothing.
If death is not the end, if the dead have lied, then it’s compulsory heaven for all
excepting perhaps
Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Kahn
We believe in Masters and Johnson
What’s selected is average.
What’s average is normal.
What’s normal is good.
We believe in total disarmament.
We believe there are direct links between warfare and bloodshed.
Americans should beat their guns into tractors
and the Russians would be sure to follow.
We believe that man is essentially good.
It’s only his behavior that lets him down.
This is the fault of society.
Society is the fault of conditions.
Conditions are the fault of society.
We believe that each man must find the truth that
is right for him.
Reality will adapt accordingly.
The universe will readjust.
History will alter.
We believe that there is no absolute truth
excepting the truth
that there is no absolute truth.
We believe in the rejection of creeds,
And the flowering of individual thought.
Postscript:
If chance be
the Father of all flesh,
disaster is his rainbow in the sky
and when you hear:
State of Emergency!
Sniper Kills Ten!
Troops on Rampage!
Whites go Looting!
It is but the sound of man
worshipping his maker.
The benefit an atheist accrues is predicated on an assumption that atheism sets him free.
If I’m an atheist, I’d be liberated from religious demands. I no longer need to love and worship God.
If I do not love God, I’d not be shackled to a morally pure life required by Christianity. As Friedrich Nietzsche thought, if God does not exist, everything is permitted. I am my own god.
Decisions abhorrent to a well meaning Christian would be desirable to an atheist. An atheist can abort his / her unborn child. Gaining wealth by hook or by crook cannot be condemned by moral relativism. Fraud and bribery are acceptable. If anyone impedes his pursuit, he can bulldoze them, figuratively and literally. Thanks to atheism.
Pleasure in all forms is acceptable to an atheist, for atheism is sufficiently undergirded by the relativistic paradigm. An atheist is free to practice adultery, polygamy, homosexuality, child sex and what not. Thanks to the power of subjective moral values.
This is not it.
An atheist could also live a depressing life, for he would suffer a constant existential struggle.
This metaphysical struggle is between moral relativism and the law of the land, which is fundamentally predicated on objective moral values (you shall not kill, you shall not steal, you cannot rape etc.).
Although moral relativism prescriptively allows an atheist to gain wealth through unholy means, the law of the land legislates various stipulations that stifles and could imprison him for gaining wealth through unholy means. So he should painfully ponder over the wisdom behind the law of the land not being predicated on moral relativism!!
Jeffrey Dahmer, an American serial killer, expressed this struggle, “If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing…” (Jeffrey Dahmer, in an interview with Stone Phillips, Dateline NBC, Nov. 29, 1994.).
Is there any value to the benefits stockpiled from atheism?
Atheists who wholly experience the unholy pleasures of this material world are destined to become weary of pleasure so to doom themselves into the darkened dungeons of meaninglessness.
Edward Young, in his work “Night Thoughts” ridiculed pleasure, “Sure as night follows day, Death treads in Pleasure’s footsteps round the world, When Pleasure treads the paths which Reason shuns.” And wasn’t it G.K Chesterton who said, “Meaninglessness does not come from being weary of pain. Meaninglessness comes from being weary of pleasure.”?
The author of Ecclesiastes pronounced the meaninglessness of pleasure, “I said to myself, “Come now, I will test you with pleasure to find out what is good.” But that also proved to be meaningless. “Laughter,” I said, “is madness. And what does pleasure accomplish?” I tried cheering myself with wine, and embracing folly—my mind still guiding me with wisdom. I wanted to see what was good for people to do under the heavens during the few days of their lives.
I undertook great projects: I built houses for myself and planted vineyards…I amassed silver and gold for myself…I acquired male and female singers, and a harem as well—the delights of a man’s heart. I became greater by far than anyone in Jerusalem before me. In all this my wisdom stayed with me.
I denied myself nothing my eyes desired; I refused my heart no pleasure. My heart took delight in all my labor, and this was the reward for all my toil. Yet when I surveyed all that my hands had done and what I had toiled to achieve, everything was meaningless, a chasing after the wind; nothing was gained under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 2: 1-11, NIV).
So atheism does not set anyone free instead it imprisons its devotees to meaninglessness. Atheism offers perishable benefits, not enduring benefits.
What about those atheists who have lost faith in God because of the problem of evil and suffering? If you’re one of those atheists, please read the book of Habakkuk in the Bible.
The author of Habakkuk complains to God about evil, injustice and God’s apparent inactivity. But after hearing God’s response, he wholeheartedly proclaimed, “Though the cherry trees don’t blossom and the strawberries don’t ripen, Though the apples are worm-eaten and the wheat fields stunted, Though the sheep pens are sheepless and the cattle barns empty, I’m singing joyful praise to God. I’m turning cartwheels of joy to my Savior God. Counting on God’s Rule to prevail, I take heart and gain strength. I run like a deer. I feel like I’m king of the mountain!” (Habakkuk 3: 17-19, MSG).
To conclude, yes, atheism offers a plethora of unholy benefits. But unholy benefits cannot enrich life.
There’s a God. HE desires that we love HIM. When we love God truly and wholly, we don’t gain pleasure from anything the material world has to offer. We find pleasure in enjoying God’s presence and the peace HE offers us through the good and the bad days of our lives. Because we love HIM, we long to be with HIM forever – even beyond this earthly life.
So let’s echo the words of the author of Ecclesiastes, who after having considered everything the material world has to offer, finds meaning in God alone, “Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.” (Ecclesiastes 12: 13-14, NIV).
That poem is the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. You can’t have been paying much attention to atheists if you think that anything in it reflects atheist thought. For example, the laughable suggestion that Jesus and Mohammad were “good men” and that all religions “believe in love and goodness” is far more typical of the mushy liberal religionist who attacks so-called “New Atheists” for being too confrontational. Authors like Richard Dawkins, Victor Stenger, Christopher Hitchens, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, and other atheist writers have a far less rosy view of religion than what you take to be the atheist norm simply because someone wrote it in a poem (now there’s an infallible guide to the truth: someone wrote it down!).
As Friedrich Nietzsche thought, if God does not exist, everything is permitted.
You clearly have never read Nietzsche, because the words you’re putting into his mouth were written by Dostoevsky in The Brothers Karamazov, in a passage occurring in Part IV, Book 11, Chapter 4, where Dmitri Karamazov is quoting himself while recalling a conversation with Rakitin. There is no evidence that Nietzsche ever said or thought anything like this. Your idea of ethical philosophy is at the Kindergarten level. You misunderstand the meaning of relativism, assume that morality can only be rooted in deontology without a proper argument, and then pretend as if only God can properly ground a deontological system, despite the numerous problems with the divine command theory of morality. And even if your argument weren’t crippled by all these problems, it’s also a fallacious argument to consequences. Even if the consequences of atheism being true were that everything was allowed and that this realization throws people into an “existential crisis” (even though it’s been shown that convinced atheists have as good psychological outcomes as convinced theists — it’s being uncertain that is associated with poor psychological outcomes), that would not mean that atheism is thereby shown to be false.
It’s also amusing to see you think that a serial killer’s word can be trusted. In fact, Jeffrey Dahmer is the son of Lionel Dahmer (who wrote a memoir about that, so there’s no question about this fact). Lionel Dahmer is a so-called “creation scientist” of long-standing. So if you believe that Jeffrey Dahmer is telling the truth, this means that his father, despite being a “creation scientist” who attends conferences and publishes in their in-house journals like the CSRQ, never bothered to indoctrinate his son into Christianity and creationism. Does that sound plausible to you? Well, you believe that a woman was tempted by a talking snake and that people rose from the dead, so perhaps you’re not the best person to judge plausibility.
And it’s positively hilarious how you attempt to dictate the psychological attitudes of real people by telling them what the Bible and certain religious writers say they ought to feel. What if I just tell the author of Ecclesiastes, G. K. Chesterton, and Edward Young to go shove it? You can’t do anything about it, because what they say I have to feel and think has no force to constrain what I actually do feel and think. Hell, if you think that will work on people, you might as well save a step and just tell nonbelievers that religionists and the Bible are in agreement that they should believe in God.
That which truly (ontologically) is Beauty/Good and that which truly (ontologically) is Ugly/Evil both compel the rational mind to the fact of their irreducible reality, and thereby Godward.
True that, LHRMS Brown
With respect, this post shows how you just don’t get it. And you probably will not until you experience certain things and expand your knowledge on things.
Kindly enlighten me, Adam. Thanks for sharing your opinion, nevertheless. God bless.
This post assumes that atheists are heathens only living for pleasure with no one to be accountable too. That is a straw man. Kind of like what Penn Jillette said. He has murdered and raped as many as he wants as an atheist, which is 0.
If an atheist does something good for someone (which is frequently), it’s because they want to. Not because there is an underlying motive like a sky daddy watching everything we are doing.
Atheists are people. Human beings. Like you and me. And many times they used to be Christian. They had to get out of Christianity to be intellectually honest with themselves (the main one being that the Jews did not believe in an afterlife and Hell and Heaven was a concept borrowed from the Babylonians) and because Christianity made them ugly people. They find themselves being able to really love people because they are less judgmental.
And if you look at the crime stats in America, the areas that have the highest crime are the most religious areas. Those with the most non religious people have the lowest crime rate. How do you explain that? The same with crime rates in secular Europe.
Atheist live with purpose filled lives because they realize this life is the only one we get. Why screw it up by doing harm to yourselves and others? If there is a God and he wants to send them to a so called hell because they didn’t believe in him yet were very productive people in society and loved those they came across, then so be it.
You mentioned once that you have never met an atheists. I encourage you get out and meet some. Not just one or two. But several on a frequent basis. I think you will find that this post poorly represents what you are trying to attack.
For resources, read Steven Pinker’s book Better Angels of Our Nature, Michael Shermer’s book The Moral Arc, and listen to podcasts like The Thinking Atheists and Everyone’s Agnostic.
Adam, Many thanks for sharing your thoughts…
1. I do not think that I mentioned that I never met an atheist…In fact, I have many good friends who are practicing atheists.
2. You said, “And if you look at the crime stats in America, the areas that have the highest crime are the most religious areas. Those with the most non religious people have the lowest crime rate. How do you explain that? The same with crime rates in secular Europe.”
My response: Certain religions not named Historic Christianity, advocate violence but I can only speak for Christianity. A proper understanding of Christianity cannot motivate violence. I am not saying that Christianity motivates pacifism…I do believe in Just-War theory…but that’s for another day
3. I had a disclaimer in this article, but I knocked it off due to the word limit…I cannot publish blogs that exceeds 1400 words…this is the disclaimer…hope my mind is transparent to you now…”Disclaimer: All atheists do not seek unholy benefits. There are honest atheists who are morally good but are either struggling with their faith in atheism or [volitionally] ignorant about the incoherencies and fallacies of atheism.”
Finally, I am not saying that all atheists are heathens or wicked…but i am positing a fact that moral relativism, which predicates atheism, justifies all that I have said about atheism
You told me about a year ago on this forum that you did not know any atheists. So if you now have friends that are, then that is awesome!
Only one thing to clarify, the high crime rate in America is in the places where most people claim to be Christians. Where church attendance is the highest, etc. These people who are Christians are also the ones doing most of the murders, rapes, thefts, etc. It shows that those who do not claim to be Christians are actually the better people. As far as a proper understanding of Christianity, shouldn’t the Holy Spirit enlightening these people to what it is if they are being raised on the Bible and going to church?
I think you are living in the world of theology, not the world that we are all in here.
Adam, I have been friends with atheists for more than a decade….so I guess its a typo that may have crept in by oversight to give you that false idea of me…
God created man with freewill. So its by the freewill that man loves or rejects God. Its by the same freewill that even the so-called Christians either chooses to obey or disobey God – The blessed Holy Spirit .
As far as proper understanding of Christianity goes, First, God has done HIS part to enlighten man through the Bible and then HE is doing HIS part through the constant counsel of the Holy Spirit. But man employs his freewill to either be intimate with God or that very freewill intrudes into his relationship with God.
Reg. Christians doing good things…..Please read this post http://christianapologeticsalliance.com/2017/01/18/god-is-necessary-not-necessary-for-morality/
Good discussion, brother. God bless.
Good is good.
What the heck does that mean?
Good is good??
Good according to who??? Hitler or Mother Teresa??
. These people who are Christians are also the ones doing most of the
murders, rapes, thefts, etc. It shows that those who do not claim to be
Christians are actually the better people.
False.
If christians do those things then common sense would tell you that they are not christians. Those things dont agree with Christs teachings. Obviously they arent Christians. Come on man. That is common sense!!!!
Rajkumar:
“My response: Certain religions not named
Historic Christianity, advocate violence but I can only speak for
Christianity. A proper understanding of Christianity cannot motivate
violence.”
This is what we call the no true Scotsman fallacy. So
far, christianity has not shown it does better than other religions
or atheism. It boils down to a childish bragging.
The perceived shortcomings of moral relativism do not
exist, unless one can show that there exists an absolute, objective
morality. Looking at what christianity has to offer, we there
only see a relative morality that looks very much like what bronze
age people thought was right and wrong.
It is to mr. Richard to make clear that is an objective morality.
no one to be accountable too.
Thats exactly what Atheists want. Atheists want to deny God so that they dont have to be held accountable.
Yeah. You don’t get what atheism is about.
I know exactly what Atheism is about. Ive looked at. I know!
From your comments, it does not appear so. Tell me what you have looked at about it. Let’s have a conversation. Not a shouting match.
Candy, quoting you, “Atheists want to deny God so that they dont have to be held accountable.”
No, the reality is that people like you want to pretend that no matter how horrendous the things you do in your lifetime, no matter how horribly you treat others, all you have to do is ask an imaginary sky daddy for forgiveness and you are going to heaven while all those you treated poorly are going to hell.
Christianity is immoral, and your beliefs are immoral, Candy.
Christianity is immoral, and your beliefs are immoral, Candy.
This is an opinion!!
Actually atheism is the highest, not religious.
It’s the highest form of intellectual honesty. Accepting the truth even when it’s not what we wanted to do.
Atheism is the Highest. What the heck does that mean?
We are willing to accept how science and archaeology contradict the Bible. Most Christians don’t. That is what that means. It’s being honest with the facts even when it’s not comfortable.
We are willing to accept how science and archaeology contradict the Bible. Most Christians don’t.
That’s because it doesn’t!! You assume that Evolution is true, therefore you conclude that the Bible is wrong.
I actually didn’t study evolution until after I seriously studied religion and the evidence. So you are wrong in your assumption.
I can give you a very, very long list of how archaeology disproves the Bible if you want. Just give me an email address to send it to. I have posted it on here before but the moderators took it down.
You view archeology is a different way then from how I view it. Do you understand what I mean by this?
What do you mean by that?
Since you haven’t responded to this yet, I will go ahead and challenge what you are implying by your statement.
It sounds like you are wanting to judge things by different standards. That is absurd! We can’t just make our own rules and expect the world to work around them. There are things and definitions we have to agree on or we will never discover the facts and the truth. Archaeology is archaeology. Now if you know of other findings that challenge what has been discovered, that is one thing. But making up your standard and definitions by how things are determined is ludicrous. Maybe that is your issue with evolution too. Just saying.
Huh?
Yeah. That’s my reaction to the your answer that you chose not to expound upon.
Expound upon?
Atheists believe, not all but most, believe that we are nothing but animals and yet you think you are the highest. Try to explain morality when you probably would consider yourself to be an animal and animals are not held accountable for their actions.
We deal with the evidence. Are we a product of evolution? Yes. The theory of evolution is like the theory of gravity. Expect many scientists will say the theory of evolution is stronger than the theory of gravity. And we are all pretty sure about gravity.
Though you are trying to take a jab at something you apparently don’t understand as well as you might think, animals are held accountable. They die early when they make poor choices. Monkeys and apes actually do have some moral codes. Just do your research.
Morality was around before the Bible was.
We deal with the evidence. Are we a product of evolution? Yes.
So we are here for no reason and we have no purpose?? Brilliant!!
Purpose to our lives is a man made concept. We make our own purpose. This is why religion has attracted so many throughout the years because it claims to tell you what your purpose is. This is why atheism is the highest form of intellectual honesty. The truth sometimes sucks but we are willing to accept it and deal with it anyway.
But you are not interested in a conversation so I will stop responding. I am glad you acknowledged that I am brilliant. Thank you.
Purpose to our lives is a man made concept. We make our own purpose.
So if Hitler’s purpose in life is to do what he did, no one has to right to stop him? Given that we live in a world that is here by natural processes in fact everything is, there is no right and wrong.. That’s the reality of atheism, and evolution. There is no evil, good, right wrong. Its just like what Dawkins has said.
What you said doesn’t challenge what I said. Yes, Hitler gave himself his own purpose. And he was stopped by those stronger who did not agree with his purpose.
Yes and those who stopped him and cHalle need him. Why?! Why was what he did wrong?
Do I have to answer that question? At the very least, he threatened our safety and quality of life. That is Evolution 101. But of course I cannot use that argument against you since you pick and choose what science you want to believe.
Notice, the US didn’t get involved until the US was attacked. Not because Jews were being killed.
Huh?
We didn’t get into WWII because of a God or morality. We got involved because our existence as American people was threatened.
Ok and?
You obviously are not tracking with this conversation very well.
Really? They are??
Schools of barracuda swim the open seas together searching for victims, much like a gang does. But does anyone decry the actions of barracuda? Of course not! They are animals, just doing what animals do. One male elephant seal may mate with dozens of females, but no one chides him for his promiscuity. He’s just doing what elephant seals do. A female praying mantis eats her mate after he’s fertilized her eggs, cowbirds abandon their eggs in other birds’ nests for them to raise, and rodents sometimes eat their own babies.
Candy Smith is an uneducated creationist, does not know the bible at all except as lied about on creationist websites, and loves to spout her ignorance in discussion threads.
She never has anything intelligent to say, and her goal is not to bring others to her religion but instead just to spam and troll as much as possible. Take a look at here posts; they are never anything but trolling.
Very true. Good call. Time to engage with someone who thinks critically and for themselves.
Atheists are not honest with themselves. if they were, they would have stopped trying to prove what is scientifically incorrect.
What science journals are you reading? Oh, your obviously not doing that on your own. Or you would understand the ignorance of your comment.
I am done going back and forth. We are not going to change either one of our minds and you seem to have your own set of facts that contradict reality, archaeology, and science. You just like making blanket statements which show that you are just using things you’ve heard from pastors that are straw man arguments and really haven’t thought about the atheist side very hard. You can’t even hardly give me any specific examples of what you are talking about. And when I do, you want to redefine what science and facts are. Then you won’t answer my questions when I call you out on it.
Good luck to you. I truly hope you learn how to think skeptically better than you are now.
Yeah no I’m not being ignorant.
Atheists famous atheist believe that the universe came from nothing.
Lawrence Krauss believes this Richard Dawkins, believe this too.
Straw man arguments
How so?
I like making blanket statements.
Nothing I said was what I got from my pastor. So sorry but your wrong. I can tell you for an absolute fact that I didn’t get what I said from my pastor.
That is exactly what they want to do. If there is no God then I can have sex when I want and I can do whatever I want. If there is no God, everything is indeed permitted. If there is no God and evolution is true, and we are nothing more than a bunch of animals, then its not wrong to kill another person because he or she is nothing more than an animal. There is no ultimate difference between animals and humans.
This comment shows that you are out of touch and are just buying what the preacher says from the stage. Like Penn jillette says, I’ve killed exactly as many people as I want to kill and rape as many people as I want to rape. Which is, 0
Atheist live with purpose filled lives because they realize this life
is the only one we get. Why screw it up by doing harm to yourselves
and others? If there is a God and he wants to send them to a so called
hell because they didn’t believe in him yet were very productive people
in society and loved those they came across, then so be it.
Yeah that is because they make up their own purpose. There is no objective purpose. That means one person can say that my purpose in life is to rape as may women as I want which by the way isn’t wrong if evolution is true and another person can say,, my purpose is donate to the poor.
But there is no real right and wrong. Right and wrong are just a matter of personal preferences.
Atheists are people. Human beings. Like you and me.
Really? Most would say that we are animals??
Atheist live with purpose filled lives because they realize this life
is the only one we get. Why screw it up by doing harm to yourselves
and others? If there is a God and he wants to send them to a so called
hell because they didn’t believe in him yet were very productive people
in society and loved those they came across, then so be it.
He send them to Hell because they are sinners and that ois the only choice that they makes Him to. He offered a way to not end up In Hell. That was throiugh Jesus. That is the only way to get salvation and to get to heaven. If people choose to reject, they have ti go to Hell. That is what they have asked for. They have asked for a life without God and that is what He will give them.
Atheists have analyzed the evidence and come to the conclusion that there is no God. Hell is a concept that wasn’t adopted by the Jews until they went into captivity and came across the idea because that is what the Babylonians believed. Atheists don’t have to believe in a God to not harm to themselves or others. We don’t need God to be good. Maybe you do.
Atheists have analyzed the evidence and come to the conclusion that there is no God.
Okay but that’s illogical.
An atheist cannot logically come to the conclusion that God doesn’t exist. It is impossible!!!
When atheists look at the evidence and aren’t convinced, then that means they haven’t found convincing evidence, they can’t logically come to the conclusion that God doesn’t exist. It doesn’t make sense.
Correct you do t need God to be good. That is 100% correct.
We agree with this.
The Bible tells us that God created Hell for the Devil so I don’t know what you are talking about.
No I don’t need God to be good and neither do atheists. That is NOT the problem that atheists have and it NEVER has been.
If an atheist does something good for someone (which is frequently),
it’s because they want to. Not because there is an underlying motive
like a sky daddy watching everything we are doing.
Why? Why do you want to do good?? If there is the only life that you have? Why not go rob someone and kill them to get an XBOX?? Why is that wrong?